Also subtitle this: Internationalist politeness and the damage it does to imperialist country comrades' scientific orientation This is in response to "RCP-USA" non-response. See for example how "Morpheus" defends the "RCP-USA" knowingly mentioning the truth about Germany without rebutting it: ************************************ Subject: The RCP's Analysis of the Working Class is a Leninist Position Posted by: Morpheus on 2002-08-06 19:07 http://2changetheworld.info "Isn't this what Chushi is arguing when he writes: "Mao didn't appeal to the labor- aristocracy of japan to defeat the invasion. Nor, Stalin need the help of the labor-aristocracy of hitler's germany to destroy nazism."? Morpheus **************************** maoist3@yahoo.com for the Maoist Internationalist Movement: I have to say that something that really stands out in the "RCP-USA" response to the MIM line on its own bulletin board discussing its own program on a historical plane is how it sidestepped German imperialist history. I mean they actually consider that they have answered MIM, Stalin and Mao on German history? Do they really think they are going to find justification for not ending imperialism at its source the way the Red Army did in Germany by reading Lenin, Stalin and Mao? Homer Simpson's "Doh!" comes to mind for their whole response on this. This is something where comrades outside the United $tates and other imperialist countries really need to step in and try to explain that there really were strategic consequences of the imperialist country labor aristocracy. Inside the U$A especially, we do not learn basic international history. Too often the Soviets or the Third World comrades have neglected to help keep us imperialist country comrades in line with a firm grip on reality-- and that shows when people like the "RCP-USA" go out amongst the population. In early 1943, the German army started its massive surrenders at the "Battle of Stalingrad." There was never a time when an imperialist state received such blows as at that time. The top German officers starting writing their memoirs on how they knew it was all over for them, already in 1943. The "Battle of Stalingrad" was in fact the largest land battle in history. Yet, the German population failed to bring down Hitler in those favorable conditions. That's right, not only did the German population fail to rise for socialism: they could not even wage a war to be rid of Hitler. They did not overthrow Hitler in 1943, not in 1944 and not in 1945. Meanwhile, millions of people died needlessly as a result. Stalin thought about giving the German population another 3 months in 1945, but decided against it. Thus even with the help received of having the German state on the defensive and receiving crushing, demoralizing blows, the German population that the "RCP-USA" would refer to as "proletariat" fought FOR Hitler to the bitter end. Yes, there were scattered acts of minority resistance to Hitler, but all in all it cost MILLIONS OF RED AND PROGRESSIVE LIVES because the German labor aristocracy was a parasite class, not a proletariat. Had Stalin "waited" for the German labor aristocracy, Hitler may have had the time to invent the atomic bomb and nuke the Soviet Union, Africa etc. Let us add that if the "RCP- USA" is saying that the German population of 1945 was a majority "proletariat," then we don't want to have anything to do with that "proletariat." That's not our class that fights to the end WITH Hitler. That may be the "RCP-USA"'s class, but it's not ours. We disown it. We tell that population to transform itself. That's the message it needs to hear and the principal form of struggle with such people has to be ARMED. See where the "RCP-USA" talks anywhere about how armed struggle with the imperialist country population can transform it. If the German labor aristocracy was a "minority," it would not have required a full-scale loss of millions of people to end Nazism. The Soviet occupying officers have in the historical records countless tales of having to hold in their opinions about the great alleged German "proletariat." It was a huge act of internationalist politeness, but it went too far - -to the point where people like the ones at the "RCP-USA" feel no compunction criticizing Soviet conduct during World War II while telling tall tales about the German "proletariat," which was LESS bought off than the Amerikkkan population today. While it is understandable in the crush of the moment that the Soviet occupying army did not, in the year 2002, we need to sum up what happened then from 1943 to 1945 and admit facts. We could evade these facts to help the imperialist country population feel good about itself, but that would be to evade what the imperialist country population has to do: go through a re- civilizing stage of the dictatorship of the international proletariat principally based in the oppressed nations. The "RCP-USA" wants to deny the need for this stage as amply demonstrated in Germany by saying we simply deny the possibility for revolution in the imperialist countries. We can only guess they mean Hitlerite revolution the way they have defined things in Germany's case for instance. The above is the MIM line on imperialist Germany. Feel free to post it. We are sure there is no proletarian rebuttal.