[mim3 note: This debate started in a discussion with some young
   Satanists, one of whom raised that it was possible that a mutant soda
   can was god and we are all its creation or dream. For this reason, he
   rejected materialism of the Leninist sort. It was especially an apt
   discussion because the Satanists were having a parting of ways, with
   some calling for toleration of all sexual practices and some saying
   they did not want to deal with S&M people anymore.]
   
   
   
   On Thu, 6 Nov 1997 B.wrote:
   
   New topic, "solipsism." Mim3 is right to dismiss agnostic arguments
   about
   
   "mutant soda cans" et al as postmodernist junk (I'd call it mental
   
   sublimation noise). However, it is VERY different to say "a white man
   
   cannot KNOW what it is to BE a black man, no matter how much he
   studies
   
   etc"----that is DIFFERENT. NOW, that is NOT to say it is worthless to
   
   scientifically analyse blacks and their relations in humyn society
   etc.
   
   But FEELING and experiencing what it is to be someone else is
   impossible.
   
   I hope that Mim3 is not arguing this point! The best that white man
   can do
   
   is interact with that black man, and know the black man in relation to
   
   himself. I believe this point goes back to Mao's theory of knowing and
   
   doing. According to the Santiage Theory of Cognition, cognition
   (knowing)
   
   is the process of interaction with one's environment (living).
   
   B
   
   [1]mim3@mim.org says:
   
   No, I did not state this forcefully enough yet. This point is the crux
   of post-modernism today. Knock it down and you've destroyed most
   elite-level academic opposition to science.
   
   It's simple: Tani says non-Turanians can't understand what it's like
   to be Turanian? Then stop talking about it! Talk about whining! This
   is whining raised to the epistemological level. If Tani doesn't think
   I can understand what it's like to be Turanian, then she can stop
   talking to me about it! I ONLY read her posts on the assumption that I
   am undertaking something USEFUL, and not just a dream.
   
   If whites can't understand what it's like to be Blacks, then why do we
   waste so much time talking about it? Every persyn an island then--that
   would be the logical conclusion. It is also the perfect JUSTIFICATION
   for whites to not fight national oppression and racism. If they can't
   understand it, then how can they fight it? To fight it, you have to
   KNOW what it is. And it is possible to know what it is, because it is
   OBJECTIVE; it has an existence apart from the subjective state of
   people and ALL subjective states of people are determined by OBJECTIVE
   conditions. The contrary is mystic mumbo-jumbo leading to fascism.
   That is the role of post-modernism today, to disarm the fight against
   oppression in the most sugar-coated way and clear the way for fascism.