mim3 for MIM:

Ward Churchill has now received 100 death threats for his speech "Some
People Push Back" posted in the Politics section here.

The New York Post ran a story explaining that he did not meet the blood quantum to join a certain First Nation band. The boundary is 25% blood and Ward Churchill is 3/16--good enough to join countless reservations and receive services and even cash payments that Ward Churchill has turned down.

The New York Post and bourgeois Colorado media are calling him a "fraud," though he never claimed to be a full member of the band he affiliated with.

How the hell did your stupid bloodline and eugenics ideas contribute to the anti-Amerikan struggle? Answer, they didn't. They set us up for a reactionary media
blitz.

The bourgeois media is now whipping up all this bullshit over bloodline, taking advantage of a neo-Nazi inclined public and others completely ignorant of daily life of the First Nations.

The New York Post story here is typical:
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/39967.htm

The NYPost knows surely that WC is an associate member as admitted by the band. The NYPost spun and cut the story to make it look like WC claimed to be full-blooded, when in fact, thanks to genocide, only a tiny percentage of full-bloods exists anymore anyway.

I hope to see the Kim supporters do something about this Ward Churchill case. I'm not convinced they don't have more in common with neo-Nazis than communists.

http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/cong...ltural2004.html

This post has been edited by Maksym on Feb 20 2005, 07:36 PM

The First Nations correctly recognize "blood quantum" as a Nazi-style device used by white Amerikkka to define the First Nations out of existence. Over time, the average "blood quantum" in almost any population will decline; it would take either isolation or rapid population growth among those with high "blood quanta" for the average to remain stable, let alone to rise. A population as thin, scattered, and oppressed as that of Native America is practically doomed to declining "blood quanta". Therefore the bourgeois yardstick of "blood quanta" spells the eventual disappearance of Native America by administrative means. Marxists must reject it.

In addition, merely proving one's "blood quantum" can be very difficult, especially when one's ancestors were oppressed by a colonial power. How many of us could establish that we were 3/16 anything? Sixteenths means going back to great-great-grandparents at least. I don't even know (or care about) the names of my ancestors that far back, and I certainly don't have documents with which to prove who they were--let alone establish their "blood quanta".

More important than "blood" is cultural identity. Churchill is clearly committed to his own band and to Native America in general. Why should he be regarded as "less" a First Nations person than someone with more "blood" who is thoroughly integrated culturally with Amerikkka and who doesn't give a flying fuck about the First Nations?

I didn't even read the original post since the author lumped neo-Nazis and Jucheists into the same category.

Yes. This is a clear statement from the wing-nuts of MIM telling all progressives that they are not to be taken seriously. MIM appears to be far more dogmatic than even the Trotskyites of Marxist.com and the like. They are useless and have done nothing to promote leftist causes or the creation of a just society. Shame on MIM for their dogmatic attitudes.

To be honest I really dont see what MIM have done wrong here.

When they say 'I hope to see the Kimists do something about this Ward Churchill issue' perhaps it would be more constructive for those pro-DPRK people and others to actually start doing something about it. Then if MIM criticise u for not doing anything u can say 'Hey actually we did and are doing something'. Or whatever.

Now being in the UK we haven't heard of Ward Churchill. The only place I heard about him was on MIM's website. It seems perhaps that he's another victim of U$ domestic fascism. So why aren't other Marxists raising awareness about his plight? Forgive me for asking what is 'far out' or 'dogmatic' about MIM doing precisly this.

Were CPUSA 'dogmatic' for raising issue of the Rosenbergs (not exactly same but similar)? I aint attached to MIM but it seems the only people being 'dogmatic' are the ones who launch that accusation rather than dealing with the important issue of Ward Churchill.

MIM may just be that aswell, but not in this thread. Like I said he/she wants to know what your gonna do about it (Churchill). So what u gonna do comrades?

Although it's true that MIM is ridiculously dogmatic, their ideological line is atleast 95% correct. They are correct dogmatists, but that still makes them dogmatists.

I support Ward Churchill and and have solidarity with him. However, what is there to do when you live in a society where the majority of people don't even know who he is ?

This post has been edited by Iron Feliks on Feb 20 2005, 11:22 PM

MIM just called this forum "a haven" for "Neo-Nazis", "hardcore fascist activists" and "FBI informers". Surely you don't agree with 95% of that? MIM = fucking crackpots.

Like you said, you're in Britain and you don't know what is going on in the US. MIM isn't going to do shit about this besides write about it on their website, so they have no room to talk.

All they're going to do is accuse more people on the internet of being "Neo-Nazis" and "FBI informers".

Sensitive:

You take a Liberal line. MIM has called exactly ONE persyn an FBI informer, the one persyn at Red Comrades who admitted in writing twice to being one.

The rest of that "Red Comrade"'s sympathizers are FBI informer symps.

Sensitive, you parrot other people's crap incessantly without investigating what you are talking about.

MIM has delivered hundreds of thousands of newspapers, books and magazines into prisons. There is no organization in the united $tates with our record on concrete work in prisons.

MIM led a successful campaign to stop the deportation of a South African poet who served time with Nelson Mandela on Robben Island--when MIM first formed and MIM has continued concrete activism since then.

Since that time MIM has gone on to gather thousands of sigs in countless campaigns for various causes.

Just because you tap a small portion of MIM's website, don't assume that everyone is like you.

And as CC said, the way to prove MIM wrong would be to do the organizing for Ward Churchill yourself or even for MIM. Let's see Kimists kick some ass, and when this thing is over we can compare who kicked more ass.

Nope. I just reviewed your raving from last night:

lol @ "hundreds of thousands". I highly doubt those numbers. Just like I know for a fact that the people you accuse of being "neo-Nazis" and "FBI informers" are most definitely not. You are a fruitcake.

Can't you see you all are being bitter about something unproductively?

How does MIM's alleged dogmatism or crackpottery change the fact that we should not let Ward Churchill be fired for that speech!?

The reason most people don't know about WC to answer Iron Felix is that we have to have an independent media. The MIM newspaper with the article about Ward Churchill as we speak is being distributed in Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Princeton and many other places. Even in Colorado, not known for activism, the counter-movement has picked up the notice of the bourgeois papers.

The number one "socialist" website could have been the reformists at the Socialist Party or the Democratic Socialists of America, but luckily the number one website for readers is MIM's, so there IS going to be some knowledge of this case! We could be in worse position and before MIM, we were in worse position when something like this came up!

But the really important thing is to go out on our own and SPREAD that knowledge and fight!

Sensitive, you moron, even your proof says,
"sympathizers of neo-Nazis and FBI informers"--and you are definitely that, at least a sympathizer.


"I have NOOOOO problem with the FBI."--Red Comrade
Reference, here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.sa...oe=UTF-8&rnum=8

Meanwhile, I can't find many Satanists (erstwhile comrades of Red Comrades) who have not figured out that Red Comrades are fascists, and they can be pretty god-damned apolitical.
It's only pig-headed people on these boards who cannot admit they are wrong.

If you don't want people to "feel bitter" towards you, then do not initiate flame wars by calling people "neo-Nazis", etc. who obviously are not.

It is irrelevant to the accusations that you have made. If you loons hadn't randomly accused so many people of being "Neo-Nazis", "hardcore fascist activists" and "FBI informers", then it would not be necessary to correctly define you as crackpots.

Earth to MIM: this story has been in the national media. Many of your hated "white liberals" across the country are speaking out in defense of this guy, and have read his essay. To imply that the MIM newspaper is the only source that is in defense of him is outrageous (but coming from you, it is not that surprising). The majority of his supporters are liberals.

mim3 for MIM:
Before your "Red Comrades" put out a political face, they were active in Satanist circles.

Now there are countless articles by their former Satanist buddies burned by the "Red Comrades."

<a href="http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.horror.cthulhu/browse_thread/thread/b4260ae1b7ed6d5d/04659b525e365133?q=%22Tani+Jantsang%22+%2Bfascist&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3D%22Tani+Jantsang%22+%2Bfascist%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#04659b525e365133">Here is just one.</a>

And if anyone is having problem reading these links, just let me know and I'll figure out how to repost them.

Both MIM and the apolitical but original Satanists are telling you the same thing, but you refuse to listen.

What (or who) the fuck was that? I have no idea who that is. Never seen anyone like that at either che-lives, ISF, EG or PoFo. So there is no relevance. You implied that there were "FBI informers" HERE that WE "sympathized" with.

"Satanists", "Red Comrades"? What the hell are you talking about?

Look, jack-ass, I don't care if you are bitter toward us! If FBI-symps were not
bitter toward us, I'd know I wasn't doing my job.

And as I said, the issue is Ward Churchill. You are only proving that "Red Comrades" exist purely as obstruction. They've done NOTHING, except send a letter to FBI Tampa about us.

As for your accolades to the liberal media, I was answering Iron Felix, not you. Iron Felix was wondering what to do when no one knows about the problem.
In that context, the fact that MIM is the number one "socialist" website does make a difference. But then again, if you think Liberals are possibly going to handle this correctly, what can I say?

And if you're going to deny the FBI informer connection, prove to us you can read!
It's in black-and-white, and there's more.

This post has been edited by mim3 on Feb 21 2005, 12:39 AM

mim3 for MIM:

You are such a lying sack of shit. If you want to pretend you don't know what I'm talking about, then BUTT OUT of this conversation! Don't talk about things you pretend you don't know about!

Again, who the hell are "Red Comrades"? Are you sure they are not just some other guys on the Internet, (like MIM)??? I've never seen any "Red Comrades" post here, and I do not recall any at ISF or the other boards.

I doubt that as well, considering that you are basically the smallest non-trotskyite "socialist" party in the US. I'm sure some of the other parties will run something in their papers about this story as well. The liberal readership is obviously concerned about it.

Again, some guy on an e-mail list that I've never heard of (allegedly) sends an letter to an FBI office in Florida. That has no relevance to this forum at all. So do not try to claim that we "sympathize" with some rival e-mail list of MIM's.

I just googled it: http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/

Was that what you were raving about? It is just a website with some links and articles (which appear to be copied and pasted from other websites).


Edit: heh, yeah, I think I did read an article that they copied and pasted from Northstar Compass maybe a year and a half ago. I guess I AM part of the conspiracy!

mim3 for MIM:
Sure, OK, let's take the above literally. Then you should once again be shutting up about things you don't know about, Sensitive.

Cassius Clay does remember. Mazdak once admitted he got his info from them. So let people who do know what this is about talk, instead of injecting things you supposedly don't know about.

mim3 for MIM:
Again, you have "doubts," no information. The fact that MIM's website is the leading U.$. "socialist" website and has been for several years has been confirmed by more than one third party. Mind you, even MIM does not care about that, because line is decisive, not numbers. If MIM did care about numbers, it would have joined the Democrats or the CP-u$A instead of forming MIM.
But the fact that MIM is the leading U.$. socialist website DOES prove that you and others talk incessantly about things you don't know about.

The following is just one sample of proof. Get used to having proof when you talk.
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/pirao/alexarankings.htm

Then read the whole central task report here:
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/pirao/ce...sk02162005.html