Platform of the National Bolshevik Party of the United States of America


On the Purpose of this Platform

This document sets forth the ideological foundations for the National Bolshevik Party of the United States of America. It also lays out the Party’s vision for the United States, and what specific political, economic, and social policies it supports and will actively struggle for. Modifications are to be made with the passage of time to certain sections of this platform so as to ensure the relevance of the Party in the future, though the Platform as a whole is meant to provide a solid foundation for those who will join the National Bolshevik cause.


Section One: The Ideology of the NBP-USA

National Bolshevism is both a rational and spiritual opposition to the global system of capitalism. Its very name brings together two ideas which are often seen as contradictory, but which are in actuality both neccesary for the creation of a stable and just society. Nationalism and socialism are each collectivist ideologies which are in fact, very easily connected. Nationalism places pride in one’s nation and loyalty to a state that adequately represents it as being of primary importance, while socialism is a system primarily defined by the collective ownership of the means of production.

-National Bolshevism derives its reason for existence upon resistance to the current “system”, its economical institutions, its political structures, and its leaders. However, in recognizing that the current system is unworthy of representing the people forced to live under it, National Bolshevism puts forth positive ideals which stand in contrast to it. National Bolshevism promotes a society of honor and freedom. This Ideal stands in direct opposition to the system of capitalism that currently exists in the United States and which dominates the world’s economic system through its exploitation of other countries’ resources and people.

-We wish to see a country that is largely self sufficient and which takes pride in its unique culture. All people, regardless of race, religion, or background are welcome as part of our Nation. Loyalty to the American Nation is what makes people “American”, and one’s ethnicity does not disqualify one from being part of it.

-We stress the struggle for the creation of a government whose main function is to act as a catalyst for the improvement of people’s lives, while symbolically representing the culture of the Nation. This national culture has been primarily shaped by European culture and traditions, and National Bolshevism wishes to preserve and encourage the progressive elements of this culture within the context of the struggle for social justice.

-Worldwide capitalism is creating a single world culture through its lowering of the barriers between countries. The borders of a country are sacred in that they provide a reference point for the Ideal which the people are to unite around. While nationalism is often defined as loyalty to one’s race or ethnicity, National Bolshevism places more importance on geopolitics and the respecting of sovereign states’ rights. We wish to see a world of many cultures, and will also respect the many cultures which exist within the United States itself, promoting the tolerant elements of our heritage.

-In calling for socialism, National Bolshevism does not advocate Marxism. Our ideology is fundamentally different in that it does not see the rise of the proletariat as the inevitable result of capitalism, and does not hold the view that “the working man has no country”. Within our borders we wish to socialize the commanding heights of the economy and create an economic system that provides for its people, rather than allowing the business elites to control the country’s economic and political life. Our socialism stems from our nationalist outlook, in that an economic system based on equality and the distribution of wealth to those who helped to create it is the best possible economic system for the people as a whole. That is, the Nation is best served through a socialist economic system.

-While we hold that the USSR and its Eastern European allies were both nationalist and socialist, we stress that each country has unique conditions and that the totalitarian nature of these regimes was neither a positive aspect of them nor one that has any place in the American political system.

Section Two: The Struggle Against Globalization

The NBP is defined by its opposition to globalization, for it is through this social, economic, and political process that the people of all nations are losing their rights and the power to control their own lives. The domination of the world’s economic and political structures by a small group of people and organizations is restricting the freedom of individuals of every nation and territory, and we see this as a violation of their human rights. Our opposition to globalization is a primary factor in our foreign and immigration policies.

The NBP calls for:
-the withdrawal of US troops from all foreign countries, and an end to US involvement in military alliances such as NATO.
-the withdrawal of all military aide to corrupt regimes
-the withdrawal of US support for trade agreements or organizations that seek to exploit less developed countries and which benefit only a small number of economic elites. The US then, would no longer support the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, or the World Trade Organization.
-a withdrawal from the United Nations pending the creation of a different multi-state body that meant primarily to allow for communication between different countries. The current UN is too often used to give legitimacy to the immoral actions of powerful countries, and it is only through facilitating communication that an international organization can create a more peaceful world.
-fair and limited trade with other countries, with sectors of the economy neccesary for our defense or the standard of living of our people being developed as much as possible within our own borders. This is to prevent foreign events from having a devastating impact on our economy.
-a peaceful foreign policy based on respecting the sovereignty of other states’ borders and rights. Restoring our ties with Europe will also be a priority.
-severe limits on immigration, with the understanding that it is in the interest of business elites to have a poor immigrant class who they can exploit for inexpensive labor. Mass immigration leads to cultural conflict and does nothing to stop the economic ruin many Third World countries are in. Aid to these countries and mutually beneficial trade agreements will help end the cycle of poverty, and will allow for the people of these countries to posses a decent standard of living without having to leave their homelands and cut themselves off from their way of life.
- maintaining the limited sovereignty of Native American reservations, granting independence to occupied territories like Puerto Rico, and nationalizing foreign owned businesses within the United States. Our ideology calls for respect and the preservation of heritage, not the Darwinian racism of National Socialism, so we will not seek to economically exploit or dominate South America.
-In protecting our borders, the soldiers we will recall from foreign countries who are not demobilized will be used to help patrol them.

Section Three: Democracy

National Bolshevism holds those who control the current system of government to be its enemy, but it also sees the structures of the system itself as problematic. In addition to our struggle against the system and for our own policies, we also seek to reorganize America’s political structures to assist in making them more responsive to the desires of the population.

-The national government will no longer stand in the way of democracy by maintaining the two party system, All laws which protect the monopoly on power the two major parties currently posses must be repealed as soon as possible, and the NBP-USA will do all in its power to cooperate with other groups who demand the same.

-Having a bicameral legislature will allow for democratic society as well, though it will be modified from its current version. While one house will involve the direct election of legislators by the voters, the other house will be chosen by representatives chosen at the local level. These electors can be held accountable by those who voted for them as they will be those whom he or she must live with in their community.

-Though we do not call for the current system of states to be replaced immediately, regional governments created without regard for state boundaries will eventually come into being. These regions will be created with efficiency in mind, as they will have more economic resources under their authority, and so will be able to further decentralize economic power by taking over some of the functions of the central government.

-At the central and regional level, a National Control Commission will be created to observe how resources are being spent by the government. This group is not elected, and will publish monthly and yearly reports on the performance of the central government , while local and largely independent branches of the NCC will do the same for the level of government that they are attached to. These groups primary purpose will be to provide the American people with information, but they will also posses the ability to bring those who abuse positions of power to court.


Section Four: The Economy, Labor, and Meeting the Needs of the Population

National Bolshevism has as one of its values the idea of social justice. This requires that the state take steps to ensure that the economy is run in the interests of the public good, and that it provide for its people. Rather than allowing massive amounts of wealth to accumulate in the hands of a few elite capitalists, National Bolshevism calls for a democratic and fair economic system that allows for enough flexibility to ensure growth and prevent stagnation, while also preventing the spread of poverty for the working class. Our economic beliefs are based on our spiritual foundation in that we promote a system that promotes social justice because it is in the best interests of the American Nation.

-The nationalization by the central government of the “commanding heights” of the economy is an action that must be taken to ensure all Americans a decent standard of living. Energy, transport, and other essential industries will be owned by the state, while light industry and smaller industries will either be controlled by state government or by private individuals, depending on their size.

- Those industries nationalized will elect representatives from their factories or firms, who will in turn elect regional representatives who will assist in running these industries on a national level. Those elected at each level will assist in the overseeing of their individual factories or firms, and will also choose those who will hold similar powers at the next level. In allowing workers to directly participate in those industries that are nationalized, we increase the level of popular input into our economy

- Jobs creation programs are neccesary to lower America’s unemployment rate and give useful work to those who want it. A massive effort to improve the infrastructure of the United States will be one of the primary tasks of these programs. Both the national and regional governments will take part in projects to repair schools, bridges, roads, hospitals, and other vital structures which have been allowed to fall into disrepair under our current system. These programs will not only provide people with a means to support themselves, but will also directly help those who depend on these structures.


Section Five: Social Policies

In looking at the United States we see a diverse country with many different national groups coexisting within it. National Bolshevism can best be described as a nationalistic set of ideas, with the “nation” being defined as a group of people who speak the same language, are willing to protect their country, and who believe that they share a common destiny. The social policies of a National Bolshevik government would reflect this nationalistic outlook, while recognizing that freedom is a vital part of any nation. Under National Bolshevism then, both individuals and nations have rights, and each must be allowed to flourish as freely as possible, without a cumbersome bureaucracy or a corrupt corporate run government to restrict them.

-Racist Affirmative Action policies must end, as must all programs that attempt to force diversity on Americans at the expense of fairness and unity. These types of policies encourage racism, they do not prevent it.

-English will be the only official language of the United States.

- Culture must be allowed to grow freely, so the limitations on freedom of expression enforced by the current government must be ended.

-In general, the social policies of the United States must allow for the greatest amount of freedom possible while also encouraging the growth of a powerful Nation. A combination of freedom and strength define our ideal America, one that is both proud of its unique elements and tolerant towards the many trends that exist within it.

http://www.freewebs.com/nationalbolshevikp...ofthenbpusa.htm

Yeah, that has been on their site for over a month now. The US NBP is still in the very early stages of development though...

I like that platform statement. It's a very good one, something this country needs desparately.

By the way, for anyone who decides to call the NBP UnMarxist, from their FAQ:

ABOUT NATIONAL-BOLSHEVISM

ARE YOU NATIONAL SOCIALISTS OR FASCISTS? Of course not. A National Socialist bases his whole emphasis on the question of his nation's racial purity/racial characteristics, which we National-Bolsheviks don't care about. National Socialism is Nationalism in its most extreme form; conquering other people for its owns sake. A National-Bolshevik doesn't want to enslave other people, or proclaim one superior to another, but instead liberate them from the yoke of the Novus Ordo Seclorum: the New World Order. Neither are we Fascist, because they defend the existing Capitalist system (just as the Nazis do) as long as the State and the people of a Nation are intact. A National-Bolshevik grants no pardon towards the Capitalist system and would NEVER sacrifice ideals for the conflictlessness in a Corporatitist society, as the Fascists do.



ARE YOU RACISTS? No. The NBP in Russia accepts Jews in the party, and has some in leading positions, and everyone is welcomed as a National-Bolshevik, regardless of ethnicity or origin. But we do recognize a Nation's or ethnicity's historical and cultural traditions and everything that it means. Because the mass immigration 'exodus' of the Third World is created by the Liberal-Capitalist power we see it as obvious that European nations help their blood sisters and brothers. The system is the cause of problems, not the Immigrants; they're victims of the purges by the World Capitalist dreadnought. We fight for them, for their right to a prosperous homeland. When the World Order is smashed (may that day dawn soon, inshallah) and the Third World countries liberated, repatriation will minimize Ethnic conflicts in the West and will send these undeveloped countries the 'know-how' and intellectual power needed for social rebuilding. About 'race mixing': We National-Bolsheviks believe it's an individual choice whom a Comrade or Citizen decide to spread his or her offspring with. It isn't a political matter. However, we believe that all ethnicities (of aesthetical as well as natural reasons) should be preserved for the future generations, and an example of an endangered 'race' is the black Africans, that after hundred of years of Colonial oppression, slavery and now, through HIV and mass starvation, face long-term extinction. It's a matter of enormous proportions to be solved, for the best of Mankind and the Africans, but through the existing system this is entirely impossible.



ARE YOU COMMUNISTS/MARXISTS? Marxism is an interesting Philosophy which, among other things, helps to explain the laws of Economics, and acts as an interpreting tool of history. As a political dogma, Marxism is an anachronism. No, we are not Marxists or Communists, but we proclaim the rights of the little Man against the plutocrat Elite, and are thereby 100% Socialist.



ARE YOU NATIONALISTS? Nationalism/Patriotism may, as in Russia, be a great instrument to use to reach the goal. In Europa Nationalism lies in the mud of our bloody 'civil war' past. We live in another age, where a United Europa is necessary; not under the dark-blue coat of the Capitalist elite, but under the Red Banner. Decentralisation of power is however necessary, even in this United Europa, and what could be a better bearer of this decentralized power than the European nations and regions? Regarding Third world countries, we always stand on those fighting for national independence against the Globalists. It may however be difficult to identify progressive Third world movements sometimes.



HOW DO YOU VIEW LIBERALISM/CAPITALISM? Capitalism isn't an Ideology, but a system. Liberalism and Capitalism mean Consumerist culture and the Yankee cultural imperialism a la Coca-Cola. To be an anti-Capitalist, is being opposed to Liberal values (which clear the way for the Capitalist parasite-like monoculture). The National Bolshevik is the greatest of all anti Capitalists, because we opposes all it's values, ideals and content. Bolshevism is the total opposite of Liberalism and Capitalism: instead of Liberal western values, we proclaim the traditional-socialist Eastern ones.

The people (or person) who apparently leads (or manages the website) or the NBP of the USA, I get the feeling they are closer to nazi-ism than the actual NBP of the former soviet socialist republics.

I don't know what to say really. I'm not sure if any of you should trust it. If its not racist then I'm wrong, if it is, I truelly hope it is more honest about its agenda.

For those of you who remember rhys1488, I think you might agree that I think we might both know who is behind this NBP of the USA. I do not mean to come off as your enemy Rhyss, if you are behind it, and I have called you correctly here.

"However, we believe that all ethnicities (of aesthetical as well as natural reasons) should be preserved for the future generations"

This is what caught my attention, and the fact that rhys was interested in a US NBP and I also was, but I think we had different visions of it. I think you can be an ally, but I think recruiting people who don't agree with your ideals and attempting to change them is the wrong idea.

We don't need to walk on eggshells here, tell me whats up. In a private message if you like.

?

Since when is this a definition of socialism? That statement, if you retract the phrase "thereby 100% Socialist", could have been uttered by Teddy Kennedy. Socialists do not have to be Marxist; however, with the title "Bolshevik" you have joined National Socialism in the task of co-opting the title of an already well-established political movement to be used for the muddled agenda of some sort of European Racialism. Bolshevism is tied to Marxism in that it is Marxist; a party with that title would, to the modern proletarian, invoke images of a group that was more than "interested" ( ) in the writings of Marx and Engels.

This post has been edited by Veblen on Jan 12 2005, 03:43 PM

A better understanding of NazBolism comes from the english version of their newspaper, which has not been sanitized quite as much for north american consumption:

Cheerful indeed

They may not be blatantly racist, but it is quite clear they draw most of their ideas from Fascism, eugenics, social darwinism, etc...

http://www.limonka.net/

And this is retarded:

They say Capitalism isn't an ideology, and then they say being an anti-Capitalist is to be opposed to "Liberal values". What are Liberal values? Lax immigration laws? Allowing women to work? Sorry, eastern traditionalism is not something to be worshipped. It's probably a greater enemy.

Would you wanna oppose women driving like they do in Saudi Arabia?

NazBolism is a childish approach to the world's problems. Instead of attacking the cause, Capitalism as a system, it attacks all the things involved in it without ever even approaching solving the problem. It attacks internationalism, because its efficiency drives Capitalism to attempt it, though it can never be achieved under Capitalism. It attacks Liberal values because in order to save Capitalism, the Conservative society has always had to be sacrificed to a slightly more Liberal one in order to please and placate the working class who revolted against slavery, for women's rights, against racism, etc... It doesn't take into account at all whether something that is a part of society right now was forced onto Capitalism or not, if Capitalism was the cause of it or not, if it helps or harms the Capitalists. It merely wants to throw it all out in some grand idealist Nietzchian scheme that takes the strong and young and beautiful out to a brave new world. And any people who dislikes it, but cannot defend itself, has no right to say otherwise.

To hell with NazBolism.

This post has been edited by Che y Marijuana on Jan 13 2005, 01:47 AM

Oh, and for those misguided individuals here, there's a sample of the book their Fuhrer wrote, Edward Limonov, on their site.

Here's a few important quotes from it, proving the anti-Marxist and deeply anti-socialist nature of NazBolism, despite all their rhetoric otherwise:

(by the moor he means Marx, who was nicknamed as such because of his slightly darker skin tone)

They are not socialist. They have no interest in being socialist. They do not believe in the collective ownership of the means of production, though they use the word to describe government interference in Capitalism.

http://www.limonka.net/limonka/001/eng/14.html

Oh... and from above... to show yo what I mean by them not being blatantly racist, but still clearly xenophobic/racist in a not so blatant way:

This post has been edited by Che y Marijuana on Jan 28 2005, 07:08 PM

LOL, you do realize that no one here actually SUPPORTS the Nazbols, only that they're an extra side against Imperialism.

Because Fascism is anti-imperialistic?

Perhaps you can't read properly? Let me repeat:

And you did support them:

This post has been edited by Che y Marijuana on Jan 17 2005, 04:16 AM

First off, they're not fascists.

Second, I didn't support them, I agreed with what their platform was.

I suggest you start taking some English lessons, you're in dire need of them.

Wow, I don't know why Im gonna bother wasting my time arguing against your stupidity as if you aren't the most thick-headed utopian Ive talked to in these forums, you are damn well near it. But your level of ignorance on these issues is appaling and needs to be exposed.

What about any of that constitutes "fascism" or "social darwinism? They want to build a healthy society through the use of genetics. It is really no different from any other science that exists for the improvement of human life. Just because Hitler believed in a disgusting racialist and social darwinist form of "eugenics" dosen't mean that anyone who practices it is "teh nazi!!!11" Are horse-breeders fascists then? They practice eugenics.

Yes, being anti-capitalist is being opposed to Liberal values. By Liberal values, I mean the degenerate consumer-based society that exists in the west and is being spread rapidly across the globe, replacing existing cultures and progressive economy's with media "culture" and market economy. You can't turn your back on the social baggage that comes along with capitalism that de-humanizes people into mere cogs in a machine, enslaved to what sells.

So people who want to continue living their way of life in foreign nations with no interest in imposing it on everyone else are "a greater enemy" than imperialism? Great. Like a typical ultra-leftist, you are soft on imperialism and your problem with the imperialists isn't the fact that they exploit foreign nations and impose their will on them, but the fact that they don't believe in your global utopia. Then Trotarchists wonder why they are described as being on the different side of the same coin with the neo-cons. Anyone who believes in a diverse world with people having their own way of doing things is despicable in both your eyes.

No, but if that is how they want to run things, its none of my damn business because I have the insane idea that not all people are like westerners and maybee they like their society (including women, many of whom support movements like the Islamic Revolution in Iran) and aren't interested in a libertine western-style one. If their society voluntarily (as in, not by foreigners imposing their "universal culture" on them) "liberalizes" their society. great. But if not its their desicion.

Proof?

No, it attacks internationalism because it is what is efficiently making capitalism global and is creating an inefficient utopian "opposition" towards it.

They want to preserve the status quo, right? They are part of a big conspiracy against the working class.

Oh the irony. That sounds more like utopian internationalism than NB. Where does the preservation of culture and the improvement of living conditions fall anywhere into that?

Marxism and Communism are not the only forms of socialism. The purpose of socialism is to eliminate the use of property for exploitation, weather it is through collective ownership of land or through private ownership by part of all citizens (the exploited people own no land for the most part) in a more equal fashion. NB proposes the latter. And guess what, in the USSR 4% of the peasants land was their private plot where they could grow whatever they wanted. In other words, they owned land in the USSR. So are you going to argue that it wasn't socialist?

-Racist Affirmative Action policies must end, as must all programs that attempt to force diversity on Americans at the expense of fairness and unity. These types of policies encourage racism, they do not prevent it.

They are absolutely right. How does Affirmative Action not promote racism? It makes minorities dependant on the system rather than self-sufficient and are maintained poor because of this. Racism is a result of poverty as it is, which is one of the reasons Affirmative Action promotes racism, but it also does for the obvious reason that it creates resentment among whites and other "well-off" minorities.

-English will be the only official language of the United States.

If you think that is "xenophobic" you are ridiculously PC. It's common sense. Do you not learn French if you move to France? Do you not learn Spanish if you move to Spain or any Hispano-American country? Do you not learn Japanese if you move to Japan? Do you not learn Russian if you move to Russia?

It never implied that people can't speak other languages, but the official language would be English. It is no more "xenophobic" than the expansion of English as a "universal language," which they don't approve of (notice, they support Puerto Rico's independence, and therefore the preservation of Spanish as their official language).

And that statement takes the cake. Fascism is very imperialist, The Axis Powers conquered foreign lands which they considered Lebensraum for the dominating country. The reasons for you being soft on imperialism are very clear now.

What needs to be exposed is you Fascists masquerading in red, the NBP, the third positionists, who arose as either a police front or something much more dangerous, a slicker fascism of today arisen in a time of Capitalist crisis.

Breeding horses is a little different than controlling humans' sexual activities. It's also a little different than talking about beautiful men and women being drawn to the reaction by their loins:

Liberals value eating... is that something anti-Capitalists must throw out too just because Capitalists do it?

Those aren't Liberal values. That's the ideology of Capitalism. Liberal values are civil liberties, anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-homophobia, etc...

Remove Capitalism, and all that falls away. Remove the rights of women, blacks, homosexuals and Jews, and you have cogs in Auschwitz.

What if their way of life is to impose it on everyone else? Like stoning a woman to death for being a rape victim? Or killing a homosexual for fucking the wrong consenting adult?

Capitalism is Capitalism, Imperialist or not. Neither the Imperialist oppressors, nor the small nations' Capitalist oppressors will be spared from global revolution by their own peoples. They will force their will on them, no nation will do it for them. That of course, doesn't mean we aren't allowed to call Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc... piles of reactionary crap to encourage those people to revolt.

You excuse oppression, so long as it isn't between nations. I put all oppressors on the same level, since I don't believe in the green fairies that made those magical lines called borders.

What if their own way of doing things was to oppress people? Or what about oppressing other nations, are they allowed to practice that?

I seriously doubt anyone but an officer could make so little sense.

As if you'd ever know. Any woman who speaks out would be jailed. But that's not your business, because she just happened to be born in a country you weren't born in, and you'll never have to worry about that.

What if one woman wants to live free, is it that society's decision not to let her? Or does our not interfering only go so far as the rights of nations?

Provided in heaps elsewhere. But basically, you attack internationalism, individual rights, the lack of traditional values, etc... etc... but also attack workers' control and the ideas of class warfare and Marxism. In otherwords, you attack everything in Capitalist society today, but never Capitalism itself.

You attempt to treat breastcancer by amputating our legs.

Let's see... Capitalism is international... and is successful as a result (though it fails to acheive real internationalism as a solid unifaction of Capitalists). So instead of seeking to internationalize the labour movement, and build what would be a successful unity of workers against an inefficient disunity of Capitalists, we should instead build tiny unities of workers and their Capitalists in each country.

The worker has no country. For a reason. Because when you call for nationalism, you're really calling for workers in each country to bow down and work with their Capitalists against other workers and other Capitalists.

Sorry, officer, no can do.

Oh, because the Capitalist class is out to help the workers as much as possible?

The status quo is useful. The status quo is division. Woman against man, young against old, gay against straight, black against white, east against west, worker against worker. So long as we kill each other because the book of the little green fairies said so, we're too busy and divided to turn against our masters.

It doesn't, the goal of NazBolism is to create a perfect state, ruled by the ubermensch, beautiful Russian men and women not afraid of war, ready to die for whatever sick bastard is above.

I say it throws out everything regardless of whether it was forced on Capitalism or not because of the reality that social liberties were won by the working class, people like Malcom X died for them. That does not make them a part of Capitalism, those are the things we want to keep. What we want to kill are the fairytales that prevented us from having them to begin with. The opiates that keep the people divided and confused.

NazBolism throws them out, and to hell with any people that dares to stand against Fascism:

Anti-imperialist indeed.

I'm going to argue the USSR never completed what it set out to do. Something the NBP will never even get to the point of attempting. Eliminating the use of property for exploitation cannot happen under private ownership of the means of production.

More importantly, NazBols use the words "collective ownership", then explicitly reject it, as you have done now. A classic Nazi tactic to bait the working class with Marxist terminology, then stab them once you don't need them anymore, and the crisis in Capitalism has passed.

At the very least, Social Democratic reformists honestly mistake taxes for a meaningful end to exploitation. They can plead ignorance, and they would be very much correct in that plea. You on the other hand, and your Fascist uber-brethren, are diliberately misleading.

End Capitalism, and you end the gap between rich and poor, thereby eliminating the natural disadvantage most minorities face under western Capitalism. Till then, a "level playing field" is nothing short of racism.

When the floor is tilted, you gotta tilt the table to counteract it.

Guess who else would rather the game was crooked and black kids never had a chance? That's right, Bush and co.

When there are 30 million spanish speaking citizens in the United States (10%), and its growth rate means it has already reached huge percentages in the south, it's nothing short of xenophobic to force places like New Mexico to take it off as one of two official languages.

Do you realize what official language status means? Official language status means that it is officially the language of state (or one of many). That means that court proceedings, government documents, etc... must be provided in that language too.

The federal government has no official language right now. It is unofficially English, but will likely become unofficially English and Spanish a decade or two from now. Giving the federal government an official language is an attempt by southern whites to put immigrants on an uneven playing field, to cut down the growth of hispanic immigrants, and "preserve america".

But they want to discourage uerto ricans from coming to the US, by making it more difficult to deal with the american state governments in Spanish. Places like New Mexico provide services in Spanish now, for those that need it, as well as hospitals and police forces being capable to deal in it. Having a federal official language stops that, because we have to preserve a white, pure america.

Learn to read english. He said NazBols are another front against imperialism. I said "because Fascism is very anti-imperialistic?". Which is a reference to NazBolism being a form of Fascism, and a reference to something called sarcasm.

Hence the quote I put up about NazBols saying no people who can't defend against a NazBol Russia deserves to have its independence.

What does Libenstraum mean again? Oh yeah... living space:

Woops... think I caught you Fascists with your pants down this time...

We aren't "fascists" for the millionth time, and we don't pretend to be reds. We are nationalists who take influence from some elements of communism and approve of "communism" on a national level. Unlike you Trotarchists who weed out elements of Marxian theory you don't approve of and then claim to be Marxists. And what the fuck are you talking about? Police front? Now you're beggining to sound like that crazy MIM article about ISF and AWIP. Quit smoking shit.

Where does it ever promote that?

It is perfectly normal to be attracted to one's own kind.

I think everybody values eating. pathetic.

They are liberal values. They come hand in hand with a market-based economy because they exploit man's lowest common denominators: instinct, greed and rampant individualism. As for what you mentioned, it all really depends on your interpretation of what those terms mean (except anti-"homophobia" which is definitely a liberal value as homosexuality is promoted in a liberal society). It is one thing to give individuals freedom over their private lives and establish racial and sexual equality, it is something completely different to degenerate society, promote "gender bending" and force multiculturalism.

Which we plan to do.

Which we don't plan to do (unless you consider prohibiting homosexuals from promoting their "culture" and ending Jewish tribal dominance "removing rights). Now you are being beyond ridiculous. Please direct me to any instance where NB promotes racism or sexism.

That is wrong and would never happen in my society but shit happens. I have no "moral authority" over other nations. If the people living in those society's don't like it, they can either change it or move.

Capitalism thrives on imperialism to stay afloat.

A "global revolution" which will never happen in the ultra-leftist context. The small nation's capitalists are the natural allies of imperialism. Eliminate imperialism through national revolution and they are either forced to compromise with the working class or taken out.

Well, let's hope it works out that way.

If you indiscriminately meddle in the affairs of foreigners to impose your ideology, you become the oppressor, regardless of how "oppressive" the existing system is. People will always support home grown assholes over foreign invaders. If you don't believe me, go to Argentina to find out the general sentiment about who they supported in the Malivnas war.

I think it's wrong, but it's none of my business.

I seriously doubt anyone but a lunatic with a fried brain thinks a cop would play anti-system on message boards for over 3 years, obviously changing ideas and evolving mentally, just to spy on a handfull of kids. Quit smoking shit.

Its none of my business because it's their society and I have no moral authority over them. No more than the US does and no more than you do. You call me a racist and a chauvinist but your tone implies just that: western values are "superior" to others and those barbarians in the Middle East and all over the world should be "civilized" and their society's should be re-built under our models. You use the same excuses as the neo-cons for imperialism.

She can leave that society and move to one in line with her beliefs or lifestyle. Hell, she could move to my society and would be welcome with open arms as long as she is loyal to it.

I attack ideas of dogmatism and a manufactured "class" kinship with no basis in reality. I certainly support working class rights as they are necessary for a just society but my loyalty is not towards "the [non existant] international proletariat" but towards my nation, especially those oppressed in it by traitors serving the interests of the New World Order.

You just contradicted yourself.

We should support industrial and economic nationalism in each nation, removing it from the global capitalist system so the national bourgeoisie has nothing to fall back on.

No Im calling for each nation to unite in brotherhood and end oppression, not giving in to individual interests.

I never implied that. But what does National Bolshevism have to do with it? You were equating NB's with the bourgeoisie.

I was being sarcastic, moron.

Malcom X fought for the African nation, and against white and jewish domination of the black community, not for "the international proletariat." What does he have to do with anything? He is the kind of person Trotarchists hate.

Fascism is dead, get over yourself. And anyone with an understanding of Russian geo-politics knows who that comment is taking a crack at.

Not if it is regulated.

THEY PLAN ON ENDING CAPITALISM. Get it through your thick pot-infested head. Affirmative action is counter-productive towards the elimination of capitalism because it expands the system and creates welfare capitalism.

That is why we form our own communities through leadership of nationalist groups like Aztlan for mutual assistance. Though it still does not excuse not learning English.

That is why people should learn the language. It is really not that hard.

Illegal immigrants are already in an uneven playing field when their nations are held down so they are forced to move and provide cheal labour for entrepreneurs in the west. Immigration is not beneficial for us hispanics in any way: our nations lose labor, which goes to the north and these people are oppressed by the entrepreneurs. Not to say that we should not support the immigrants that are already here, after all they are victims of neo-liberalism too (and my brothers) but massive immigration is not something that should be supported. If you think it is great, I invite you to come down to southern california and pay a visit to the fields Mexicans slave over day-in and day-out.

Again, who cares. Immigration should not be necessary if Puerto Rico becomes sovereign and its conditions improve through mutual assistance with other hispanic countries. Besides, English is also learned in Puerto Rico and is a semi-official language (unfortunately).

Hence, the communities should help them. Also, stop playing the race card and read the damn platform:

"We wish to see a country that is largely self sufficient and which takes pride in its unique culture. All people, regardless of race, religion, or background are welcome as part of our Nation. Loyalty to the American Nation is what makes people “American”, and one’s ethnicity does not disqualify one from being part of it."

Makes sense, does it not?

haha, don't be an ass. You used fascism's alledged "anti-imperialism" to argue that NB's are "fascists" as you had not proven that NB's are "fascists." Nice try.

See above. That is a reference to Chechnya.

Life Expanse is not the same as "living space." Nice try.

You cannot support Communism on a national level. Communism involves workers' control of the means of production and the end of borders, religions and races. All things you have explicitly opposed, as has the NBP.

Stop draping yourselves in red.

The NBP says once you get the beautiful men, the beautiful women's natural female instincts will drive them to join the party too.

Sounds retarded to me.

But so do Liberals! We must get rid of all things Liberal!

Wrong, Liberal values were instilled into society by the civil liberties movement, the women's movement, etc... Capitalism existed far before that. Capitalism isn't about values, it is an economic system. Consumerism is inherent in that economic system. Whether it is under the command of Fascist groups such as the NBP who will curtail those rights won by the working class, or under the command of people like Trudeau, who expanded on those rights, consumerism will remain a driving force in Capitalism.

Consumerism is not a value system. It is an economic factor within Capitalism.

Since when does the NBP call for the end of markets? Again, stop with the red flag-draping, markets cannot be abolished without abolishing private ownership of the means of production. You don't reject markets. You don't reject consumerism. You reject consumerism that isn't based around national pride.

Liberal values, the values associated with Liberalism, are values of equality, individual freedoms, civil liberties, etc... All of these are values that were forced onto the ruling class by workers' struggle. The rights of women, african-americans, indigenous peoples, homosexuals, these were all forced.

So in reality, Liberalism is just free-market Capitalism, with an attempt to graft workers' values onto it, as a response to the growing rebellious mood at certain critical junctures in history. Under Capitalism, those values of equality and rights could never really be achieved, but the illusion is there.

That does not mean we should abandon them because under capitalism they are merely a myth. It means that we should abandon Capitalism to achieve them.

Since when? You keep saying this, but the details reveal the opposite.

Capitalism exists, so long as private ownership of the means of production exists.

That sentence reeks of heterosexism and anti-semitism. Thus your question becomes rhetorical.

"Shit happens" is not enough. War between nations is obviously a rediculous solution, but nothing stops you and your union (assuming you are a worker), from organizing to materially support the unions and workers within that country fighting the reactionary ideas of that society.

Hence imperialism will be re-established if you don't finish the job and eliminate Capitalism.

A global revolution is merely separate revolutions at different paces that unite globally as soon as they can.

For the bourgeoisie to comrpomise with the working class, the working class must comrpomise with them. An idea which is unacceptable. The only future is for the bourgeoisie is surrendering and joining the working class, or being destroyed.

Anything less would be temporary welfare Capitalism.

Class war necessitates it. Historical trends determine it.

Then don't meddle, help.

But who someone has sex with is?

I do not advocate imperialism. I advocate science. If you want to believe in green fairies, that's your choice, but try to kill my neighbour because the green fairies told you to and I'll make it my business.

There's no moral authority involved. There's merely material reality.

I thought emmigration was bad? What if the society doesn't let her? What if the Capitalism you don't abolish makes it impossible for her to be able to afford it?

Loyal enough not to have sex with any other women.

Relationship to the means of production is real, material fact. Borders are imaginary lines in the sand. Religions are little green fairy books. Races are mass hallucinated blood lines that don't exist.

Need anymore?

It's quite obvious where your loyalty lies, I never implied it was with the working class.

Aligning oneself with an imaginary national entity is no different from aligning oneself with the bourgeoisie itself. It merely allows you to blur those lines, and fool workers who may not know better.

Not at all, read carefully:

Meaning you attack symptoms, or related ideas, but never the disease itself.

But the national bourgeoisie falls back on nationalism. Any workers who dare to rise up against the national bourgeoisie under your Fascism are attacked as enemies of the nation, the race. As foreign agitators.

Or class interests, one must unite in brotherhood with your oppressor against other oppressed and oppressor groups. What brotherhood is there between bourgeoisie and proletariat?

The NazBols, just as the Nazi party, the Fascist party, the Falange party, the Peronists, has a historical role to play. To save Capitalism at the crisis points of history. To consolidate the different factions of the bourgeoisie (and eliminate opposing factions within it that cannot be consolidated), and to crush rising workers' movements by deceiving workers with the ideas of nation and a fresh coat of red paint.

Your Fascism purely serves the interests of the bourgeoisie. Your leaders are clearly members of the bourgeoisie, with their own class interests in mind. Your membership is a mixture of bourgeois extremists who understand that this is the only way to save Capitalism from the coming wave of workers' rebellion, and misguided workers and young unemployed youth with plenty of rage and little experience to understand and spot your interests.

Regardless of what he believed in, he fought for civil liberties that are a part of "Liberal values".

It's a reference to Chechnya. So what? That merely proves the imperialistic interests of the NBP.

And Fascism only arises in times of crisis, it is only now that Capitalism has reached a crisis point that is deep enough to require the beginnings of Fascist movements. The NazBol growth in Russia is merely one example of this rising counter-froce to the workers' movement.

It cannot be regulated.

Don't yawn, answer. If you don't drape yourselves with the red flag merely to mislead people, then why do you say you want collective ownership of the means of production then explicitly oppose it?

Capitalism cannot be ended until private property is abolished. If you don't plan on doing that, then you don't plan on ending Capitalism. If you don't plan on ending Capitalism, then ending affirmative action is racist.

No, but the government is there to represent the people. If enough people speak a language, the government must reflect that by giving them the option to use that one freely.

When it comes to something so complicated as legal language, it really is.

I thought you just encouraged the woman who was oppressed to move?

If conditions for immigrants are bad, fix conditions. Eliminate Capitalism and borders and you no longer have bad treatment for illegal immigrants, because there would be no illegal immigrants. You also end poor working conditions, because there is no more Capitalism.

Ending immigration on the otherhand, or discouraging it, is a solution to a symptom, not the problem.

Once again, Fascism fails to address the issue, Capitalism.

But for many people it is. They might not like being in Puerto Rico.

Of course it does, the NSDAP always maintained they didn't believe in exterminating Jews. Until they did it of course. The point is, each nation under NBP leadership will have its own form of racism.

You're an idiot. I've repeatedly argued, even with you, that Fascism is imperialistic on this very board. Hence why I responded to Red Skyscraper's claim that the NazBols are another front against anti-imperialism with the sarcastic comment "because Fascism is very anti-imperialist?".

Russian imperialism at its best.

The same way that the 88 symbol is not the same as the SS one, or the white power rune is not the same as the swastika.

This post has been edited by Che y Marijuana on Jan 25 2005, 05:20 AM

In general CyM's arguments are short-term solutions that have been proven a million times over unsucessful. They are trotskyist dreams, and what did the trotskyist movement ever do worth noting?

Permanent revolution and all that garbage were disproven with the Bolshevik revolution and the successes of Lenin and Stalin without any aid from "workers" in the west, totally independent. Workers there created an industrial society based on social-justice and democracy all on their own. Lenin and Stalin both learned from actual experience that the stagist theory is the only successful one, after the common white male workers in the west proved to be two timing traitors who were bribed with money gained from colonial exploitation.

You see nationalism must be seen as a way of achieving communism in the future. It is basic Marxist economic theory on imperialism. If the colonies rise up against an imperialist country, where is the imperialist country going to get their superprofits from? They will have to start shortchanging their own unproductive workers thats what will happen. Western workers will not be paid their true value for their work as they are now (courtesy of third world productive worker exploitation) and will actually have material basis to rise up against their owners.

Third world and black/minority nationalism and global anti-americanism are the most realistic solutions. Generally once workers see the third world breaking the chains of capitalist slavery under the banner of hammer and sickle, and they are being ripped off and exploited, they're obviously going to join the third worlders in this new world and the world will have a rebirth. The Soviet Union sparked this in the third world, once workers saw that a new society could be built without any foreign capital and still give workers living conditions, they all rose up against their masters (in the third world). Unfortunately poor management of resources and retarded feuds with china caused division amongst communists, while the imperialists stayed united as one, and they were able to regain their colonies in the end.

So I back the NBP. And any leftist who works for a better world.

This has nothing to do with Trotskyism. This is purely Marxist analysis of Fascism masquerading in red.

If you think NazBols (a term they use) are comrades, you might as well say that the National Socialist German Workers Party is actually Socialist and represents workers.

I never mentioned permanent revolution.

As for being independent. Hurray for them. But it's only logical that cooperating with other movements across the world makes it easier. Hence why Lenin created the 3rd International. Or are you gonna tell me that was a national organization?

There were plenty of international socialists who came to Russia to help, and the Bolsheviks immediately proceeded to try to help revolutionary movements nearby.

Why do you think it was the Soviet Union and not just the Soviet Republic of Russia?

Social Democrats, turned and supported their Nationalist interests. Had they instead stuck with the 2nd International and the international working class, opposing National interests, things would be very different.

The NBP are Nationalists. I don't think you understand what that means. What do you think they would have done in World War I?

You just condemned the Social Democrats who supported Nationalism

There's a difference between supporting independance movements and supporting Nationalism.

Furthermore, the NBP believes in first-world Nationalism, as well as Russian Imperialism.

They're already shortchanging their workers, Capitalism has no room for anything which does not produce profit. That profit is derived from the surplus values extracted from their workers. You might say that it is far less than that profit extracted from the third world, but to say that there is no profit or worse a loss in the relationship between upper and lower class in the 1st world is nothing short of stupid.

No worker is paid the true value of their labour. Capitalism is not a game, it is a system. Some workers are paid more of it than others, but none are ever paid all of it.

In many places, they have already begun to rise up. I won't deny of course that fighting imperialism is important. But that is not supporting Nationalism. Especially not in the form of the NazBols.

Marxist revolution is the most realistic solution.

But the NBP are not Communist.

Then support Marxist revolutions, not a Fascist party masquerading as a Communist one.

Division between the Soviet Union and China... along National borders? And how should we solve this, by strengthening those borders with Nationalism, or by tearing them down with workers' Internationalism?

Look, I know you hate me, but please, please, please read what I said. The NazBols (again, what they call themselves) are not working for a better world. They are the Fascist element that arises at times of crisis in Capitalism to save it. Much like the Nazi party, they have adopted the slogans and terminology of the workers' movement to confuse the working class.

Please don't fall into this trap.

Quite the contrary. What the Bolshevik revolution disproved was the Menshevik two-stage theory. The Bolsheviks were able to carry through a socialist revolution in a semi-feudal, oppressed country, without enduring a lengthy bourgeois period.

Go tell that to the Spartacist workers who fought in the streets.

No they didn't. They were split during WWII, but Stalin sided with the Anglo-French imperialists. The only people who tried revolutionary defeatism were Trotskyists who staged strikes in the Allied countries, but the Stalinists sided with the imperialists against them, calling them "German agents" (a charge similar to that levelled against the Bolsheviks for their own revolutionary defeatism in 1917). In Vietnam, for example, the Trotskyists and Nationalists joined forces in a revolt against French Imperialism, but the Stalinist CP sprang to France's aid because France was a Soviet ally at the time. The CP helped put down the revolt. Same reason the CP couldn't make a revolution in India during WWII, they sided with the oppressor.

The analysis is really being done using Anarchist, and not Marxist terms of figuring out what's going on.

And no, it isn't fascism, except to those who throw that term around so lightly.